Downrange: A No Laying Up Podcast

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No Laying Up Podcast

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Live from the Kill House

Soly catches up with Michael Kim for a true golf nerd discussion covering:

(2:30) His social media presence and embracing his role as one of the Mules on tour.

(7:15) His opinion on the decision makers on potential outside investment into the tour and how important the effects on his level of player will prove to be in the decision-making process.

(16:10) The depths of the struggles he dealt with in his game, working to find a way out of those struggles and the search for the right swing coach to help in that process.

(37:10) A more thorough explanation of some of his tweets regarding how pros approach their swing thoughts, the distance debate, and more.

Here's a sneak peek at Soly's conversation with Michael... (Note: Answers edited for clarity and conciseness):

You've enjoyed a career renaissance, is that a fair phrase to say? Before we get into that, if I pull up your Data Golf page, there's a lot of red in the strokes gained off the tee category for several years there. Take us into what was going on there, and how you dug yourself out of that.

Oh man, I mean it's so red. They might need another color for how red it was back then. It's a few years, right? It's not like a three-month process.

 For those that are not looking at the numbers, it goes: 2018 -0.107  -1.58, -1.84, -1.31. So four straight years there of losing more than a stroke per round off the tee.

And guys like Rory and John Rahm are gaining like a full shot. To me, that's not just a two-stroke difference. That's also the amount of stress I felt like I was putting on myself during the round. It started in 2018. I get off to a not a great start in the year and I'm missing cuts. And even if I make cuts, I'm finishing 60th, 70th, barely hanging on.

A fresh, funny discussion of all things golf from the guys at No Laying Up. Episodes air twice a week and topics include tournament recaps, interviews, deep dive player profiles, golf travel, and more.

764 - Michael Kim

Bermuda, we hardly knew ya. JK JK, but The Pro has won and that’s what we’re getting to first.

Sure, it’s the quiet part of the golf calendar but there’s nothing quiet about a Max Homa dub. Soly, TC and D.J. bring Max on for a small post-victory cameo to discuss The Pro’s big win at the Nedbank Challenge in South Africa before exploring all the other big-name topics – and of course, safaris and international travel. Max shot a 6-under 66 to come out with a 19-under total for the tournament, and gets into why he decided to play some golf abroad in the “off-season.”

(12:30) What’s going on this fall season? The guys talk about the actual implications of the fall season.


(21:45) Covering Gary Player’s choice words on the Augusta National Women’s Amateur…and what the possible origins of his ire might be.

(24:00) Camilo Villegas wins the 2023 Butterfield Bermuda Championship, earning his first PGA Tour victory since 2014 – right in between his commentating gigs and second stage of Korn Ferry Tour Q-School.

D.J. classifies Villegas as the Rickie before Rickie, between the fun fashion, BDE wins, and relentless drive — specifically, how he spent nearly a decade trying to climb back. Villegas also endured personal tragedy in 2020 when his daughter, Mia, passed away at 22 months after fighting brain and spine tumors.

Bermuda might be among the grainier stops on the schedule! The guys’ two cents on the setup, and some more discourse on what exactly they’re fighting for. Elevated events, the top 125, what does any of it mean anymore? (Is any of this curing anyone’s golf fatigue?)

was Adam Scott playing in this event? And uh, Adam Long has hit 69 fairways in a row, which might be the stat of the year.

(44:00) What’s the latest on the future of the financial future of the PGA Tour? The latest investment news, and speculating where the PIF might involve itself. Does it make sense to invest in the thing that isn’t uh, entirely moving the sports needle?


If it doesn’t bring all of the gang back together re: LIV “defectors,” what is all of this worth?

, and any new developments + takes. Apparently, they’re playing on actual grass.


(57:20) Recapping the ANNIKA, where Lilia Vu won for the fourth time this year. She won by three shots over Alison Lee and Azahara Munoz in the lead-up to the season-ending CME Tour Championship.

(1:00:45) TC and D.J. embarked on Pinehurst No. 10 designed by Tom Doak. They recap their experience playing it, Tom Doak courses and Pinehurst overall.

(1:08:30) Ben Campbell wins the Hong Kong Open over Cam Smith? 

(1:08:45) On what was previously the Honda Classic, the Tour gaining full control over the event and what its future looks like – suggestions of who the title sponsors might be?

(1:14:20) Tiger spotted caddying for Charlie again, Rory spills on the LaCava sitch.


In the spirit of a big buy out day (hey, Jimbo!), the crew closes out with who in the golf world they would each individually buy out.


(44:00) I’m curious about why all these suitors–I mean, investors, are lining up to try to save – I mean, invest – in the PGA Tour. I guess there’s enough intrigue somewhere to feel like they can be these “long-term” partners, but I don’t know. If that’s enough to bring change somewhere that doesn’t involve mini Chainsmokers festivals and flash mobs waiting for a Phil Mickelson tee time, be my guest.


(35:00) Soly, D.J. is right. We shouldn’t need the explainer graphics, but I still totally do. I think I’m gonna listen back to this segment to remind myself exactly what this means for all the “bubble” guys and locking up their fates. But you’re also right. Play better.

(5:15) “We saw two cheetahs just devouring this wildebeest, and I thought it was going to be a rather concerning thing to see prior to the trip, and then you see it and it just feels right, in a way? I mean, they gotta live too.” -Max Homa


(34:50) “I shouldn’t need this many explainer graphics to consume our sport.” -D.J.

(54:15) “The more Golden Tee the design gets, the better.” -Soly


(57:50) “The ANNIKA driven by Gainbridge at Pelican, presented by the January 7th committee.” -Soly

Adam Schupak: Exclusive: PGA Tour taking over management of former Honda Classic, new title sponsorship on the verge of signing

Paul Kimmage meets Rory McIlroy and Shane Lowry: the inside story of the Ryder Cup win – and fiery bust-up with US team

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763 - Butterfield Recap + Max Homa from South Africa

As news about the forthcoming TGL (Tomorrow Golf League) has trickled out in recent weeks, we gather to try and compile what we know, and what we don't know, about the venture.

First up, the basics of the league: the competition format, the rosters, who's investing in the league, etc.

Our big picture feelings about the state of the TGL venture and how legitimate the competition will feel to viewers (20:20)

The viability of the league long term in light of the non-Tiger players who are participating and the cringe-worthy Morikawa video (45:30)

Rahm's absence from the league after initially committing and other notable players who are not participating (56:50)

Our best guesses on how the league will do in its initial season (1:04:00)

762 - The TGL

No recap pod this weekend as we're all on the road after our 

2023 Nest Invitational Tournament in Frisco, Texas.

 Instead, we bring you another calendar year majors deep dive with Soly and KVV as we turn the clock back to 1996. We start, of course, with the dramatic Sunday in Augusta as Greg Norman falters and Nick Faldo claims his third Masters.

Then it's on to Oakland Hills (49:00) for Steve Jones's unlikely triumph at the US Open, Tom Lehman's lone major win in the Open Championship at Royal Lytham & St. Annes (1:27:25), and we wrap with the PGA Championship at Valhalla (1:29:55) where Mark Brooks beats local favorite Kenny Perry in a playoff.

761 - 1996 Majors 

Soly catches up with veteran swing coach Sean Foley to discuss his career coaching some of the best players on tour and lessons learned from mistakes over the course of his interactions with tour pros (12:30). We also examine the different styles of coaching when it comes to professional players (20:30), the intersection of swing thoughts and relying on natural instincts (32:30), working with Tiger (44:00), adjusting his teaching methods for the next generation (57:00) and more.

We're also bringing you something new after our chat with Sean as our own Kevin Van Valkenburg reads his recent essay "I Walk Alone: Embracing Solo Golf" (1:13:10), which you can also 

Here's a sneak peak at Soly's conversation with Sean Foley... (Note: Full answers edited for clarity and conciseness)

We could do a whole podcast I'm sure on just this guy. I'm pretty proud of myself for waiting almost 45 minutes before asking about Tiger. But you brought him up so I'll ask you about it. Looking back on that you said you're grateful that the coaching relationship came to an end. I'm wondering kind of what you meant, how would that go today if you were to start with him, and let's just ignore health for him for the sake of this arg of this conversation. But if you were starting with Tiger Woods today, how different would that look compared to when you started with him? Was it 2010? I believe it was.

 I don't know if you can discriminate on the two, because I started with T Dubs nine months after everything kind of fell apart. And so you're dealing with someone who's incredibly wounded, probably embarrassed just in a way different place than he's ever been in his life, right? I mean it was like going from a deity to a punchline almost overnight. And so, you know, I think as I kind of came in, he was starting to see some of the mistakes he made and some of the effects that that was gonna have. And so I think we did a pretty good job together. I think what I would have done much more, that I understand now is I would've probably spent less time coaching him and more time just being his friend as I was. Like how arrogant was I to think 'Do you actually teach Tiger Woods about golf?'


760 - Sean Foley

Checking in from Down Under, Soly is joined by Ben Hotaling in his first full podcast appearance! (Ben is a huge part of what happens on the video side here at No Laying Up – click here 

(3:00) The duo spent the past week embarking on the Asia-Pacific Amateur at Royal Melbourne, where the best amateurs playing within the continent descend upon world-class venues for a chance at a Masters invite and an exemption into The Open Championship. The guys spent the week learning and embracing a quietly covered yet enormously important amateur event – and immediately dive into their immediate impressions, including a deeper appreciation for sandbelt golf.

(14:00) 21-year-old Jasper Stubbs won his first Asia-Pacific Amateur Championship in a three-way playoff against Wenyi Ding (2022 U.S. Junior champion) and Sampson Zheng, a senior at Cal. Stubbs had started his day six shots behind Zheng, the overnight leader, and got off to a +2 start through six holes, but made four birdies and went bogey-free after to earn his way into the playoff.


All week, Zheng looked like the player to beat, especially after he shot the amateur composite course record at Royal Melbourne with a 65 – Soly and Ben dive into what they witnessed, including some highlight shots and the atmosphere of a countryman winning it all and his visibly shaken challengers.

(29:00) Soly and Ben open up about some of the players they met of various ages, countries and the culture and elements of the event not often found stateside.


(42:30) Reviewing logistics, setup, routing and how the tournament was run overall. The culture of sandbelt golf is open and friendly but provides a challenge intimidating enough to question your golf game…

(50:00) How did Soly and Ben fare on sandbelt golf? And a preview of their match at the Composite Course. Washed Soly is looking to reclaim his throne of best golfer at NLU against a humble Ben. Video of their match coming soon.

(55:00) What’s the hold-up on fully bringing professional golf down under? Exploring what that could look like. Does it need to happen in the era of a rollback? Money? Think of what a major at Royal Melbourne could look like!

(1:01:00) Some miscellaneous news and notes from the rest of the golf world, including Celine Boutier’s nine-hole playoff victory at the Maybank Championship and Sami Valimaki’s playoff win at the Commercial Bank Qatar Masters. Endeavor is out as a potential investor of the PGA Tour.

Thanks to everyone who followed along on the socials this week. Lots of video content in the works from a great week spent.

(29:30) I appreciate Soly noting the level of representation these amateur championships – specifically, the APAC, provide. 37 countries were represented in the championships, but not every federation is built equally. There’s a real element of meritocracy in seeking out these players from less established golf countries and platforming them – whether it’s furthering the game internationally, finding a budding rising star, or growing it within their own.

KVV wasn’t even on this pod, but he might deserve it for pitting two NLU employees against each other. Kinda toxic. Hello HR! At the same time, that’ll just make the match that much better. So maybe not.

(15:00) “You and I watched a lot of golf this week. I saw almost no made putts.” -Soly

(52:15) “Kinda flippantly in our Slack channel, KVV referred to Ben as being the best golfer at NLU. You are the lowest handicap by almost three shots at this point. And I took that personally, I feel like I’ve held that crown for quite some time…you did nothing wrong, this is directed at KVV, you were caught in the crosshairs.” -Soly

 (1:10) This episode is brought to you by 

(27:30) Thanks to our friends at Rhoback, which was spotted on-site a few times at the APAC! They’re the stretchiest, softest hoodies in golf – and nothing beats rocking the Q-Zips for an early round of golf. Use code “NLU” for 20 % off your first order 

759 - Asia-Pacific Amateur Recap 

Big Randy and Cody are back with a recap of the latest from the women's game including Lexi's performance on the PGA Tour, the last couple of LPGA tournament results, recent interviews featuring Rose Zhang and Mollie Marcoux Samaan, and more.

Then in part two (45:00), we're joined by Gabi Ruffels to talk through her year on the Epson Tour, her transition from high-level junior tennis to golf and a look ahead to her upcoming year on the LPGA Tour in 2024.

(47:47) Life on the Epson Tour, missing the Q-Series registration deadline

(52:48) Finding enjoyment by simplifying golf, learning to win, turning her professional golf career around and dominating the Epson Tour

(01:01:41) Having professional tennis players as parents

(01:08:40) Getting a late start in golf, how starting tennis instead helped

(01:12:23) Goal-setting, future aspirations outside of golf

Here's a sneak peek at Randy and Cody's convo with Gabi... (Note: Full answers edited for clarity and conciseness.)

 When you talk about improving your standard, were there certain things in terms of your golf game that you really keyed in on last off season prior to this year? I'm curious how you went about raising your standard.

 I kind of went back to, I guess my college days and my amateur days and how I enjoyed playing golf. I kind of went back to keeping it more simple, which is how I've always enjoyed doing it ever since I started at 15. I kind of went back to that I think when I first turned pro. I tried to be a pro, I guess, and kind of change some things that I don't think I really, I guess, needed to change and added a few things here and there. I feel like I've kind of learned this year is just trying to be more of myself and trust myself and what I was doing and knowing that it was good enough.

And I feel like that's kind of what I've gone back to this year and worked super hard on, you know, a few different things. But yeah, just trying to, just kept it simple, which I've really enjoyed.

 Just for those that might not know, from the time you were very young up until what, 14-15, you played high level junior tennis in Australia and competed in international tournaments. How much do you draw on  that tennis experience and does anything with the mindset helped you in your golf career?

 Yes, for sure. I would say so. A lot of people ask me if I would trade I guess my tennis years and have started golf earlier. I would say no. I feel like it's definitely helped me, especially with the mental side of things for sure. And knowing how to work, the work ethic, the competitiveness. And I feel like when I stopped playing tennis, I was so used to that really intense work ethic and I feel like I kind of transferred that into golf. 

I definitely feel like that's helped me and the competitive side of things. Learning how to close out a match, how to win, how to remain level out there. I feel like all sports can kind of correlate mentally for sure.

That's also why I kind of drawn my parents' experiences with their tennis 'cause I feel like a lot of it definitely correlates. I wouldn't trade my tennis years and definitely feel like it's helped me.

758 - Latest LPGA News and Notes + Gabi Ruffels Interview

Our Ryder Cup recap content continues with Soly and TC interviewing European assistant captain and analytics guru Edoardo Molinari. 

We get into his first explorations into golf data and analytics during his own professional career, his experience helping Luke Donald form the partnerships that were so successful in Rome, how he viewed some of the decisions from the American team, the atmosphere in the team room after the heated ending to Saturday's matches and a ton more.

(3:40) Team Europe post-Whistling Straits

(7:19) How Edoardo was brought on board, how his experience contributed, his penchant for data

(14:45) Combining course setup with player selection, influencing  pairings

(33:23) DP World Tour involvement in building pairings

(45:44) How Team Europe responded to Team US + Edoardo's thoughts on Team US

(57:29) Team room atmosphere on Saturday night after LaCava vs. McIlroy, any nerves after Team US gained momentum

(1:00:34) Edoardo's future as a captain? How does captain selection work?

(1:03:20) Looking to Bethpage, summing up Luke Donald's leadership

Here's a sneak peek at Soly and TC's convo with Edoardo...(Note: Full answers edited for clarity and conciseness.)

 You mentioned guys being good for foursomes and good for four Ball. What makes those profiles fit? I cannot dive any harder into the Ryder Cup and I still don't think I have any understanding of how you identify who those guys are. In your mind, how do you identify who's good at foursomes and who's good at four ball?

 Again, four ball is basically just making birdies. So whoever is making the most number of birdies is good in four balls. And then we had a little, not secret, something that I'm going not gonna disclose to make sure that we can -- two players that can make the same number of birdies, but then you want to kind of mix 'em up a little bit. 

Then in foursomes, it's a bit more complex. So I started to kind of develop a system where basically we could have, let's say Rory playing with Tommy and then Rory will hit the tee shot on the first. We know exactly how many times he's gonna hit the fairway and how far he's gonna be. So then from there, Tommy is gonna hit the second shot. And we know his dispersion and strokes gained from each distance range. How many times does he hit it inside 10 feet and then Rory hits the putt and then you just keep going. 

You make them play 18 holes on a kind of a simulation and then you get an expected score and then you flip them. So all of a sudden Tommy hits the first, then Rory hits the second shot into the first, and then you do the same for all possible combinations. And we could do it I mean we looked at - I think we were looking at like 25-30 players. All of a sudden you had some players that were very good in foursomes for different reasons. One player could be very good because he hits a lot of fairways. One player could be very good because even holes it's important to putt very well. So like he could be a great foursome player. 

For example, Ludvig was great because he's obviously unbelievable off the tee. And then if he was playing even, you could hide a little bit his weakness with his approach play. So all of a sudden him playing with Viktor, you're basically giving Viktor 10 yards longer off the tee. As many fairways as Viktor hits. then you got Viktor hitting a club less into the greens. He's deadly from 160 and then from 150s and worse.

 How much did it change up, like versus what you thought it was gonna be on Saturday? How much did you, you know, based on how people played or surprises or anything like that?

 Basically on Friday we had the plan set in stone the weekend of Ireland. So two to two and a half weeks before, we had a couple of options: In case Player A is not playing great, we can swap him and in case Player B is not playing great, we can and still have everyone on the course on Friday which was the biggest concern. And then Saturday, Luke was very keen on making sure that Jon was rested for Sunday singles. At Whistling Straits he played five matches and he said he was very tired on Sunday. So if we had the option to rest someone, Jon was always gonna be the first one of our big players to rest. And that's what happened on Saturday. I mean after Friday started, the morning was always gonna be exactly the same, just we just switched the order a little bit. And then in the afternoon, Jon rested. We had a couple of different pairings that we could kind of switch with each other. 

We had to hand in the pairings at 11:00 AM for the afternoon session. We always met at 10:15, 45 minutes before with Luke and the other vice captains in a corner on the golf course. Every time it was like a five-minute discussion and it was pretty easy. And the same thing at night. I think we had an hour from when they finished playing before we could before we had to hand in the pairings for the next morning and it literally took us five minutes on Friday night. The great thing with Luke is that he's - I'm quite similar - he's very well organized. He likes to think about a lot of different options and possibilities well ahead. So even with the players, there was a general feeling that everything was very well managed. He was calm, there was a reason behind everything. And I think as a player it just puts you in a good place.

757 - Edoardo Molinari

Look out everyone – here comes substitute teacher Neil! A trio of Big Randy, KVV, and Neil form to chat mostly about golf all the way across the world.


(3:55) A sign of life from Collin Morikawa, who won the ZoZo Championship after going two years without a win. Morikawa won by a significant margin, carding a bogey-free 7-under 63. But uh, what does ZoZo do? Neil reveals they are an e-commerce company based out of Japan.

Randy’s excited about a Collin win, but meanwhile, KVV is struggling to root for Collin. When it comes to golf, there are aspects of Collin’s game that are outstanding – so why isn’t he winning more? Seems like the change to the pencil grip has finally paid off.

The guys debate the success of various professional golfers and the success with their signature grips. 

(17:00) How good of a Settlers of Catan player is Collin Morikawa?


(22:00) Once again, trying to understand the fall series and what it means to its competitors.

(27:40) Neil, KVV and Randy decide if they are buying/selling Collin in 2024. What does his legacy mean re: him vs. Viktor, his long-term projections and how far his iron play can actually take him. They then dive into some other big-name Fall series guys who chased down Morikawa, including Eric Cole, Beau Hossler and Justin Suh.

(44:30) In a bit of a throwback to one of her biggest career highlights, Minjee Lee defeated Alison Lee in a playoff at the BMW Ladies Championship (Hint: She did so to win the U.S. Girls’ Junior in 2012). Randy leads the breakdown, and notes Minjee has joined some elite company in becoming a two-time winner this season: Lilia Vu and Celine Boutier (3), and Jin Young Ko and Ruoning Yin (2).

Minjee’s win serves as a nice reminder of just how on top of the professional game she remains – as KVV points out, she led pro golf last year in strokes gained in every distance against any player on the PGA Tour last year.

(50:00) Is a Lydia Ko revival in the works? In collecting her first top-ten since the start of her 2023 season, she may need to string a few good weeks in order to make the Tour Championship – an event where she is the defending champion. There are three more events until the season finale – and it should be pretty interesting to see who locks up a spot in the event.

Randy goes down the leaderboard and extends his well wishes to the family of Kevin McAlpine, who suddenly passed away this weekend. He was the previous caddie for Lexi Thompson and former husband of Anna Nordqvist. Nordqvist WD’d from the event.


(55:50) Bienvenido a Miami! The LIV Team Championship. Note: The guys recorded this before the conclusion of play.


I’m not even gonna lie, I genuinely had no idea how this event even worked, but thanks to Neil, I am a much more educated golf fan. But there was a stroke play finale on Sunday where all 48 players were counting scores toward their respective remaining teams. However, only four teams advanced from the semifinals and were competing for the $14M top prize: Crushers GC, Torque, 4 Aces and RangeGoats GC. I just learned three of those existed today.

Crushers GC, led by Bryson DeChambeau, ultimately came out on top – congrats to KVV for making the right pick.


Randy doesn’t like the try-hard LIV vibe. Neil roasts the fashion, and how one can actually enjoy a LIV broadcast…if anyone knows, please let me know.

(1:04:50) Maybe we won’t see the framework agreement go through this year, but could we see some more players jumping to LIV? But also, is anyone watching this?

Check out the No Laying Up Pro Shop! Big restock on the ladies collection. There’s plenty of fun fall collections out, including the FootJoy Fall Collection 

and No Laying Up x Holderness and Bourne.

Randy, I am also professional golf fatigued. Aside from the LPGA – which probably deserves a schedule re-do – I’m struggling to care that much about professional golf. Can I miss it a little? 

(1:01:00) The pop of color argument is valid, but I’m not sure DJ leaving Adidas makes him, in the words of ASAP Rocky, a “fashion killa.” Feels like he’s still somewhat in his comfort zone. Not really the best source of fashion inspo here, Neil.


(1:01:20) “A lot of these guys are dressing like clowns with these crew socks. And the logos? I can’t believe we’re still going with the clip art stuff. It’s unbelievable.” -Neil


(1:13:20) “There just seems to be such a disconnect between them wanting to make golf this cool hip thing and me thinking ‘Guys, golf is never gonna be cool – it’s just not that cool!’” -Randy

Angel Yin (4th) who is fresh off of her first career LPGA victory

Atthaya Thitikul (T5) who bounced back from a tough summer, notches her second top-five in a row

NLU Young Hitter Lauren Coughlin (T10) sits just outside the top 60

Perrine Delacour goes 66-66: “I believe we call that the Mackenzie Hughes.” -Randy

Sung-Hyun Park – the 2017 Player of the Year – a T16 is her best finish all year.


Will Haskett: Minjee Lee 2022 GOAT iron play stat

 (2:05) Thanks to our friends over at FootJoy. You know the benefit of having FootJoy on your feet, but with the Thermoseries layering system, you can golf in more conditions to extend your season. Visit the FootJoy website 

(43:00) Shoutout to our friends at Precision Pro – who exclusively carry the No Laying Up rangefinder carrying case! Don’t wait – 

and save 20 % off your order using the code “NoLayingUp”.

756 - ZoZo Recap

Ahead of the start of the 2023-24 NBA season, Soly catches up with Steph Curry who was just named the 2023 Charlie Sifford Award winner for his efforts in advancing diversity in the game of golf. We cover Steph's work with the Underrated Golf Tour and the Howard University golf teams plus his current competitive golf aspirations and his plans for golf when his basketball career comes to a close. We also get into his thoughts on the Ryder Cup and some comparisons to his experiences with USA Basketball.

24:20 Ryder Cup and USA Basketball overlap

Here’s a sneak peek of the convo with Steph... (Note: Full answers edited for clarity and conciseness.)

 Is there no golf during basketball season? You gotta get some stuff in while you're on the road. I know you got a favorite course in each city when the weather permits.

 Yeah, it is kind of hit or miss. I would say it probably averages like twice a month during the season. You're dealing with daylight, obviously, with practice. Like you can't get outta the gym early enough to go out and make it worth it. Then we're hitting east coast cities most of the winter. So yeah, I'd say probably twice a month. But spring and then come playoff time, I actually play a lot more. It's great. Kind of a balance of the intensity and the pressure of the season and being able to get away for a little bit when I can fit it in and not wear myself out either.

 Somebody's gotta get into your Wikipedia page. They have you as a five-handicap in there. What is the actual index these days?

 So after every handicap disclaimer, you gotta have a whole kind of essay before I actually say the number. I had played the best golf in my life this summer. I had to put in a bunch of tournament scores this year, so I actually got down to a plus-three at one point. So obviously I wasn't winning too many bets after that. Definitely a nice vanity handicap, but it's tough when, I'll probably play to it for probably three weeks in the summer and then the closer you get to the season, you gotta carry it, but we'll see what happens.

755 - Steph Curry

Soly has declared the fall series a 1-hour or less podcast challenge! TC and KVV co-pilot as the trio embarks on a brief but informative Sunday recap.


(2:45) TC, notorious for his Tom Kim hate train (get out of the way, Thomas The Tank Engine), offers a short history lesson on his least fave – he’s been a pro for 

years! Kim had some big expectations coming out of 2022, but other than a repeat winner at the Shriners, the only other noise he’s made were some big finishes at the U.S. Open and The Open Championship. The crew debated whether it was overhyped and what his career trajectory could look like. Young Tom Kim edged out Adam Hadwin down the stretch after a costly bogey on 15 took Hadwin out of it and Kim cruised with pars on his last three holes.

(13:00) Vegas has so much potential – and with a decent-sized purse and a smaller field, why does Shriners struggle to gain some juice? Well, the guys found some: Tommy Gainey, a known participant in “Operation Santa’s Naughty List,” earned an exemption into the field.

And so did Lexi Thompson – who became the seventh woman to ever play in a PGA Tour event. Lexi battled on Friday to try to make the cut but missed by three shots. Was it the right time to give her that exemption, given her recent struggles? Is Lexi bored of the LPGA?


(27:00) The Spanish Open: Matthieu Pavon, the Frenchman, wins by four over Zander Lombard.

(28:55) Angel Yin and Lilia Vu clash once again in a playoff (TBT to Chevron). This time, Angel comes out victorious at the Buick LPGA Shanghai for her first career victory.


(31:15) King Abdullah Economic LIV City Golf Money Event Thing: Brooks Koepka wins the event, but Talor Gooch wins the season-long points race…and made $35.2M this year alone? Soly then compares LIV earnings to NBA player contracts.

All that aside: In year two, is LIV interesting yet?

(39:00) Some updates on the status of the PGA Tour and PIF framework agreement, including the possibility of extending the deadline of the deal.

(40:50) LIV losing its OWGR bid for ranking points. Phil and his chess moves. Paying players discourse ensues.

(53:15) Are the Jaguars back? And miscellaneous football commentary from the weekend.

(55:40) Pivoting back to golf: More TGL endorsements!

(58:35) Byeong Hun An suspension from the Korean cough syrup.


(59:25) Housekeeping items: KVV’s column, reminding ourselves why we like golf, etc., an NLU Roost Club Championship recap, and WANTED: Ingrid Lindblad’s suitcase snatcher.


(50:30) While I’m all for paying the Ryder Cup players (even if it isn’t an earth-shattering amount) I think there’s a certain level of read-the-room golfers should have when it comes to their demands to command the big bucks. The institution of pro golf has a responsibility to better market you, but so do you! And for the most part, there’s not a lot of captivating characters out here. The general public is pretty lukewarm about the brand of pro golf.

KVV said it best: “They’re so detached from reality. They have no f***ing clue about golf’s position in the world of sports. They wanna be paid like larger sports that generate large amounts of revenue, someone came along to satiate that economic insecurity and it’s not driven by actual interest.”

(19:35) I also have to hand you the worst take, KVV. While I don’t think Lexi playing a PGA Tour event is the most needle-moving thing for women’s golf, I think it brought some of the most intrigue women’s golf has had on a weekday all year. I certainly saw more people talking about it than the LPGA event this week (

) but amplifying women’s golf, especially when it’s breaking the gender barrier, is always a net positive.


(4:30) “It was a rotating cast of mules – and Ludvig.” -T.C.

(9:20) “Country music star Eric Cole with his new single “Boys Trip to Vegas” tops the charts again.” -Soly


(47:35) “No longer reporting TV ratings, that’s chess move number four!” -Soly


Tommy Gainey: Operation Santa Naughty’s List

Bob Harig: A Delay Could Be Coming in the Deal Between the PGA Tour and LIV Golf's Backers

(1:30) This episode is brought to you by our friends at Titleist, the tee-to-green choice for Tom Kim! The major contributor to his back-to-back victories in Vegas: The Pro V1 golf ball and a full bag of Titleist equipment – TSR3 drivers, new T-series irons, four Vokey SM9 wedges and a Scotty Cameron putter. Visit 

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 Check out the new Holderness and Bourne x NLU fall collection, as well as our headcovers, towels, ladies’ gear and more! Stay up to date on our newest releases and the content front 

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754 - Shriners Recap

As he competes this week in Las Vegas, we hear from a longtime friend of the pod, PGA Tour pro Zac Blair. Soly and ZB catch up on the latest with Zac's golf course in South Carolina - The Tree Farm - and the path from his initial work on a site in Utah for The Buck Club to what was ultimately built outside of Aiken, South Carolina. We also get into his road back from a shoulder injury that led to surgery, playing on tour under a major medical exemption, and a lot more.

Here’s a sneak peek of the convo with Zac... (Note: Full answer edited for clarity and conciseness.)

This is maybe my favorite part to ask you about, 'cause I've seen you do it in person. I've watched you sketch it in person, kind of taking all these influences and watch your brain work when you go somewhere to see, see cool things and, and kind of have it contribute towards your dream of building something. What's something specific that you've taken from a certain hole or a certain place you've seen that you're like, "Ah, I want to emulate this on this tee box or this shot from this fairway or this green, this little slope here reminds me of blah blah blah." There's gotta be something that's like, that has driven a specific image or something that, that has played out in this dream that you've built.

Yeah, I mean a lot of 'em. I would say the easiest one to pinpoint would probably be the 18th hole loosely modeled after North Barrack. That was the only kind of thing that I gave Tom like any sort of direction to: "Hey, the 18th hole has to be drivable." That's one of my favorite things ever is getting up to the 18th tee at North Barrack and every single person getting on the tee,  realistically thinking "Man, I could make a two and make an eagle here to finish my round."

So that was something that I was super keen on doing. And in his first variation, the 18th hole was 345 downhill and I was like, "Tom, who do you think is who's driving? I want it like 240 from the normal tee, it plays like 265 right now." So you know, like a lot 90% of the people step up to that tee and they're like, Oh, I can, I can make a two. We've had two hole-in-one on it since we've been open, which is crazy to think and so awesome. Hopefully, that trend continues. So it's been cool. There's like the 15th hole is like a redan, you know, so you obviously see the similarities in that, but there's, you know, the tee markers are like modeled after Pine Valley's.

That was something that I always thought was cool. There's a ton of little things that can kindly be loosely traced back to things that I've liked.  I've got a very long list. That's what I did for like three or four or five years, just go to places and see what makes them great. The one that I'm maybe most proud of has nothing to do with golf and everything to do with just the experience itself, just the whole atmosphere, and the whole vibe that the staff brings day in and day out.

That starts with a little bit of how I wanted it, but certainly, Drew and his whole staff and everyone involved on that side of it does a really good job of making people feel — trying to make it special and making it a cool place and somewhere that they want to be hanging out.

753 - Zac Blair

Big Randy, Tron and Cody are back with a post-Solheim cup check-in on all things LPGA. We start with Lexi Thompson's appearance in this week's PGA Tour event, some recent comments from LPGA Commissioner Mollie Marcoux Samaan about maximizing the tour's financial opportunities and capitalizing on the positive momentum of the Solheim Cup. 

We close with a look at the last couple of tournaments, Epson Tour graduates and some other news and notes.

752 - LPGA Check In

The fall series is here! Post-Ryder Cup remains a packed schedule, but there’s still plenty on the guys’ minds on that front. Soly and D.J. are happy to embark on the task, and D.J. is happy to report there were no hat tan lines at Patrick Cantlay’s wedding.


(2:30) “A lesson in expectations,” D.J. calls it, as the Sanderson Farms ended right within the witching hour of NFL Football—but the golf still delivered! Enter a smorgasbord of a playoff in Ludvig Aberg (not phonetic) vs. a former mortgage officer vs. a guy recovering from the putting yips vs. a nearly decade-winless Scott Stallings vs. Henrik Norlander, former college teammate of Patrick Reed.

Allegedly, Luke List’s win probability after he finished 72 holes was a shocking 3 percent—then he sealed his victory with a 45-foot birdie on the very first playoff hole.

No Laying Up