Downrange: A No Laying Up Podcast

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No Laying Up Podcast

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Apple Podcasts: NLU Podcast, Episode 792: Billy Horschel

Spotify: NLU Podcast, Episode 792: Billy Horschel

After an eventful weekend in Scottsdale, Billy Horschel returns to the pod to talk through his experience with the crowd at the WM and how the event has changed throughout his career. We also get into the PGA Tour/SSG deal, PIF investment, differing opinions on the road back for LIV players, his interview after shooting 84 at the Memorial last year and a ton more.

Here's a preview of Soly's conversation with Billy...

 June, 2022, you win the Memorial tournament by four strokes, June, 2023, you opened the first round within 84 and you are in tears talking about it to the media after the round. Take us there, take us to that, to that journey and how, how you ended up there and, and, and what unfolded there.

Nothing captures golf better than that. You win by four one year and you're in tears shooting 84 the next year.

 It's a game of golf. I mean it's so crazy. You know, it was weird. I come off '22 having a really good year. Win Memorial, make a Presidents Cup team. I just missed cracking the top 10. A gold mine, crack the top 10, top five. And if one day lo and behold I get the number one, like that's a goal. I'm a perfectionist and I want to get better and I'm always trying to get better. Todd Anderson and myself, we were just looking at some things that we didn't swing it very good at the end of '22. And so we were just trying to make some improvements and we sort of went back to something that we tried to do a few years ago and we felt like we were just in a better position to do it now physically and where the body is.

And I had a better understanding of it. And so for six weeks at home it was really good and I went out to Hawaii the first two weeks and it wasn't so great. And I came back home and worked with TA for a couple weeks and went out to Phoenix and LA and it wasn't really, it just, it just didn't transfer over. And we decided to sort of drop in, go back to what we were doing before, stuff that we've always done. But some of the stuff that we tried to make improvements on.  The new stuff actually transferred over to the old stuff, which was actually a really good thing.

And so I felt like I was doing some right things. But the game, the shots just still weren't turning out the way I wanted them to. You know, make a cut, feel like I get some momentum and then I'll miss a cut next week, which is so weird 'cause my stats guy will tell you I'm around like 85% made cuts in my career. Close to 85 to 90%. So make a cut. Miss a cut. Make a cut. Miss a cut. It was so weird. And then I go to Memorial and what was the before Memorial? Colonial. Yeah. I felt like Colonial wasn't too bad, but like, I played halfway decent at PGA. Just a couple bad shots, just didn't make anything 

Go to Colonial, play okay at Colonial. Felt like I was going in the right direction. Have a decent practice week at Memorial, and then 84. Slap in the face, I mean gut punch, defending champ. Looking forward to trying to play well and having another chance to win. It was just, it was tough. And as I had said in that interview afterward I told my team, like confidence-wise, it wasn't really high. The game didn't feel good, nothing felt great. I was just at one of the lowest confidence points of my career,  the lowest confidence point in my career. And it showed playing a course like Memorial, wanting to have a good showing after winning the tournament the year before, just sort of all came to a head. I didn't have anything in my head about sharing this. It just happened. A question got asked to me, and I just sort of just emotionally couldn't handle what I was wanting to say because I knew I was gonna start just crying just because of where I was emotionally.  I just didn't have it. And it sucks being on a public stage and not having it. And so from there, actually it was one of those things that turned in to be a really good thing. Obviously, people who reached out to me were impressive, but I felt like after sharing that, and it's funny 'cause I shared it with my wife and my family. I shared it with my team. I thought that would sort of get it off my chest, but it wasn't until sharing it with the public that I got it off my chest.


I was like 'Wow, I feel so much more at ease now.' And then from there, the game has started to slowly trend into a better form. Still just a little bit off, but I'm in a lot better place than I was at Memorial, a lot better place I was a year ago and I feel like I'm really close to playing some really good golf. I mean it's funny what this game of golf does to you.

A fresh, funny discussion of all things golf from the guys at No Laying Up. Episodes air twice a week and topics include tournament recaps, interviews, deep dive player profiles, golf travel, and more.

792 - Billy Horschel

Did the WASTE Management Phoenix Open manage to not manage any waste at all?


Sorry, but it reached peak messy this year, and some post-Super Bowl volunteers decided to sit down and talk about it and all the other golf news for this week’s Sunday recap. S/O to the brave Soly, Neil and D.J.

NICK TAYLOR WINS THE WASTE MANAGEMENT PHOENIX OPEN IN A TWO-HOLE PLAYOFF OVER CHARLEY HOFFMAN, LIV LAS VEGAS

 Tournament sponsor darling and heating pad aficionado Charley Hoffman defeats the #oldguy allegations by landing himself in a playoff against BIG playoff guy Nick Taylor. Hoffman’s win percentage was at one point just 8 percent on the back nine — but he was also at one point three shots ahead?!


 Did anyone see Nick Taylor’s drip, re: three stripe life? (I kept thinking he was in slides.) His choice in footwear couldn’t prevent him from losing two strokes off the tee, but it didn’t stop him from shooting 6-under in his final round, either.


 Don’t sir me!!!!!! Old ZJ yells at cloud. Just kidding, it was a group of spectators. But this year in particular, things ran amok – plenty of weather issues, closing off Saturday admission and alcohol sales. The pretends-to-be-shocked-of-it-all is of the PGA Tour, players and decorum freaks alike are hilarious – this tournament has traditionally welcomed chaos!

Is there a world in which we could aptly convey Scottie Scheffler’s batting average? The SG to batting average conversion doesn’t quite match up, though D.J. makes a great analogy after Soly points out how ridiculously good of an iron player Scottie Scheffler is.


Soly declares Scottie possibly the best ball striker we have seen since Tiger!

That front nine almost made us believers, but Scottie’s putting demons caught up with him once again.


 Neil shares a wholesome anecdote in which the boys get #humbled by Charley Hoffman’s Rivian truck. Sahith and Spieth’s Sunday Scaries examination follows.

 Neil points out that parity might be diluting. But the good stories crowd is thriving! But is it the path forward??

We miss the heavyweight LIV guys! But LIV isn’t moving the needle…

Hamsterdam: Kis is a welcome addition who brought a lot of great player insight into the broadcast. What else could the broadcast do? Bring in more former players for featured holes? Sign people to 3-tournament, low-obligation contracts? Something’s gotta revive the coverage.

 Preferred lies discourse means invalidating low scores – of which we had a lot of this week! It’s an asterisk we should be using more often. Where’s the fun in the easy way out? The game should welcome challenges more often.

 D.J. confesses he was excited to watch LIV, but it didn’t deliver! Course, Greg Norman gloating, shotgun start…not showing 2/3 final tee shots from the final group???


Chirpy Rahm tells a fan to turn their phone off while Bad Bunny plays in the background. But is straight up telling anyone with ears money was on his mind?


A number of LIV events either don’t air live in the United States or conflict directly with a big PGA Tour event.


Congrats to all bag chasers! But now the feds want to sniff your bags.

 You get equity, they get equity, I get equity, everybody gets equity? The PGA Tour released its equity breakdown — which is largely dependent on the impact (not just PIP!) of your career. Of course, they don’t get it all at once — but there’s some bags being dealt there, too!

But what can they do with any of this equity? Maybe they should give some thought to maximizing it, too — aka, continuing to find ways to better their product!

OTHER GOLF HEADLINES: CRISTOBAL DEL SOLAR’S 57 ON THE KORN FERRY TOUR, THE GOOD GOOD DESERT CLASSIC, JOHN MINNIUM’S YEAR IN REVIEW

The world was (most likely) introduced to Cristobal Del Solar this past week when he carded the lowest score in a PGA Tour-sanctioned event: a 57!

Good Good teaches us people just wanna see some compelling golf! And might humble the sterile but talented folks.


(1:47:00) Neil devotes a major a shoutout to 

who released his annual Year in Review, which features highlights such as total rounds, lost balls, some career highs.


Total rounds 121.5 with a career high in 77 different courses played

Low score of 75 and high of 97 with 2023 handicap at 7.0

Career low of only 1 36 hole day but 54% of rounds walked and 25% of rounds played alone. Shout out to Brett and Tony, the two most loyal playing partners (36 and 29 rounds respectively)

91 lost balls | 15% more lost balls in 23

108 birdies (.89 birdies per round) and 2 eagles in 2023

Longest stretch without golf (9 days, 3 times in 2023)

Career High 14 Free Rounds: Let’s get JM to 15+ free ones in 2024!

Career high: played golf in 22 different states

TC snuck in a question in the back section: “what was the worst hole you played in 2023? The opener at Lake Geneva-Palmer Course.

Anything jump out?: “For the first time ever, I played a hole in par for the year (18 South at Legends). You wouldn’t think it’d be that hard!”

Other shoutouts go to: Kazuma Kobori, Wenyi Ding, Jim Knous and Bud Cauley.

Be sure to check out our Happy Hour live show previewing the Genesis Invitational on 2/14 at 4PM ET!

D.J. is so real for emphasizing the need for people outside of golfers in these rooms to make golf better. Innovation in golf isn’t limited to the world’s best putters, for lack of better categorization. That’s not asking them to take a backseat, either. There’s gotta be some more sacrifice on their ends, too.

This isn’t a disagreement, as Neil kinda outlined the same point – but the parity conversation leaves me with mixed feelings when I look at it as it applies to other sports. There’s an appreciation for what the Chiefs have managed to do in four years, but there’s always accompanying fatigue. Parity brings some intrigue, but it feels unfocused unless you are super into it. So be tired or all over the place, I guess.

 (On walking with Bubba Watson during the Rickie-Hideki WM Playoff) “This was the year everyone was way out on Bubba…so there’s a little commotion (near the grandstands), but it can’t sustain, so Bubba and I are standing there, and it gets quite and this guy just goes ‘Hey Bubba, ‘F*** You!’” - D.J.


“There’s so many colors on that leaderboard! It’s a sensory blitzkrieg. Shoutout to Brandel.” - Neil

“They're not walking into a room and like dividing up $700 million, $900 million in cash. That's kind of how the early reports made it sound a little bit – was like, Scottie Scheffler, direct deposit, $45 million, $70 million, $80 million.” - D.J. (I’m just picturing Scottie Scheffler opening a vault and drowning)

 This year, we’re celebrating moments of joy brought to you by FootJoy! We’ll be discussing some of our favorite moments in the game everywhere – in a golf world that’s often felt a little less than, we’re gonna spread some positivity.

A little in-house love for the No Laying Up Pro Shop! Is it ever too early for spring? We don’t think so, so we dropped so corduroy rope hats, script hats and a bunch of new polos. Spend $50 on anything at the pro shop and get a FREE NLU towel if you use the code “NLUpod” at checkout. 

 – limit one use per customer and not to be combined with any other discounts.

791 - WM Phoenix Open Recap

1997 was a transformative year in men's golf. Soly and KVV dive into Tiger's dominant performance at the Masters, what this meant for golf, how it was covered at the time, and how it all happened. We also chat about Ernie Els at Congressional, Justin Leonard at The Open, and Davis Love's triumph at Winged Foot. Come for the results, and stay for the hilarious tidbits uncovered along the way.

Apple Podcasts: NLU Podcast, Episode 791: WM Phoenix Open Recap

Spotify: NLU Podcast, Episode 791: WM Phoenix Open Recap

790 - 1997 Majors Deep Dive

THEY’RE BAAAAAACKKKKKKKKKKK! We bring you a post Tourist Sauce, post Pebble crew of Soly, TC and KVV this Monday, ready to tackle a weather-shortened AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am and more stories from the golf week.

Wyndham Clark sets course record 60 in “final round” at Pebble Beach

The trio jumps into Wyndham’s historical round, but first – this is the seventh time Pebble has encountered some chaotic weather at this time of year. Tradition aside, does positioning the West Coast swing at this time make sense? That said, the adjustments to the Pro-Am format in capitalizing on a football-less weekend had the makings of a great week for the PGA Tour – until the inevitable came through.

He vaulted 22 places up the leaderboard on Saturday, which included two eagles. TC says it doesn’t count given that preferred lies were in effect.

They also go into the supposed observation that Wyndham intentionally manipulated the ground for his drop. Pebble’s epically soft greens warrant The Ripper Magoo Invitational title from Soly still applies.

TC calls for everyone to stop using Ludvig’s last name, and notes Ludvig’s improved putting on poa — calls this a “BDE win”...despite finishing second.

(35:40) Discussing Rory’s two-shot penalty over an improper drop rule.


(39:30) Wyndham on why he didn’t go to LIV, and how he didn’t shy away from sharing what his intentions were before and after he made the decision to stay.

(42:30) On the Rory-Spieth exchange: Rory apparently removed himself from group chat of some of the top players and had a one-hour call with Rory McIlroy after he made some comments 

signaling that the PGA Tour inking a deal with the PIF might not be necessary.

 Sounds like the last exec board meeting at Kappa Alpha Golf.


(50:00) Are the players really that committed to putting the fans first? (Props to anyone who joined live on the range Tuesday/Wednesday!) It’s not easy to get a player to sit down for an interview, KVV notes – and there’s a lot of scheduling snafus, issue, etc. but there’s a desperate need to connect the fans more deeply to the players they’re watching on TV.

Soly points out that initiative might not be the only narrow focus for the SSG guys – they might be asset-hunting ex. Pebble Beach, LPGA. There’s a lot more marketability for golf that exists outside of the PGA Tour vacuum.

More Pebble insights: Tom Brady’s Entourage reference (that the guys initially miss) and Soly reviews Neil’s Beluga Big Board.

Niemann wins at Mayakoba, but does LIV really have its moment?

(1:12:00) Joaquin Niemann wins LIV Mayakoba after a, uh, lukewarm thrilling. Since the court of public opinion is second-choicing LIV, the guys got to dive a little deeper – but was this actually an apt replacement? Additive at all? Mayakoba as a venue isn’t super attractive, and despite some of the most needle-moving stars in golf being lured away, it points back to the idea that fragmentation isn’t doing 

(1:29:40) Soly does a great job of ratio’ing the top LIV players to PGA Tour players in the top players in the world 

LIV also announces its “Any Shot, Any Time” feature as a collaboration with Google? Slated to debut this summer. Soly claims he is in wait-and-see mode.

Other golf headlines: Bernhard Langer, Dylan Frittelli

 Bernhard Langer tears his achilles and will miss what was poised to be his final Masters.


Dylan Frittelli wins the Bahrain Championship on the DP World Tour on the brink of a tough year – when he was on the verge of quitting golf altogether.

The guys wrap with some light commentary on the Xander Schauffele and Viktor Hovland withdrawals.


No live show on Super Bowl Sunday, but you can expect a Waste Management to hit your podcast feed by Monday morning.

KVV, I agree. There’s a little too much thirst trapping on the part of LIV in the implicit and explicit validation seeking. If it’s so good, why are the pro-LIV folks so thirsty for our fandom?


I agree with TC’s larger point that LIV should be luring more promising rising college stars – and that they’re a way better ROI – however, throwing a stray at the allegedly fluke-y U.S. Amateur was wrong. You reached and grabbed two fairly fluke-y examples from 2029/21. It’s started to defeat the fluke allegations in the past two years!


(On Neil’s Beluga Big Board) “I don’t even think he knew, either. It was kind of a vibe – if you came by the range and said hello, he probably bumped you up ten spots on the vibe list.” -Soly

“I asked the lady, I said, ‘Hey, is it crazy for me to get two soups?’ And she says ‘No, actually, that’s not crazy at all. Some guy was in here a few weeks ago and he got three soups.’” -TC


 (3:30) This recap is presented by High Noon! Track down the Snowbird pack nearest you on 

 at your local convenience store, or liquor store. You can find all locations at the 

(4:05) This episode is brought to you by our friends at 

the choice of AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am champion Wyndham Clark!


789 - AT&T Pebble Beach & LIV Mayakoba Recap Live Show

We're back and live from the range again at the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am, chatting with Lucas Glover, Maverick McNealy, tournament director Steve John, Sahith Theegala, and Justin Thomas. The Beluga also gives us big board for the entire tournament, we make some picks, react to the Tour investment announcement, player quotes, and a ton more. Thanks a ton to AT&T for having us out to do a show from the range, it was an absolute blast.

788 - LIVE from the Range at the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am

Live from the range at Pebble Beach for the first time, the guys chat about the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am, welcome some guests including Kira K. Dixon and Max Homa, chat about their Australia trip, and what they've seen on the range here at Pebble. We'll be back for another live show from Pebble on Wednesday from 11PM ET to 2PM ET.

787 - LIVE from the Range at the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am

Matthieu Pavon wins the Farmers Insurance Open

(0:00) Matthieu Pavon won on a Saturday – because he’s just too big for the Grammys and football, duh. KVV is joined by Kyle Porter and Shane Bacon to dig into it all.


Porter and Bacon offer a lot of props for Pavon’s mental game in withstanding an up-and-down back nine. Some highlights include a crosshanded chip to five feet on 14 after missing the green long, and a nasty three-putt on 17. Fun fact: He’s got a tat that reads “The saliva that flows now will be the tears that flow tomorrow” – which KVV points out is likely a mistranslation.

Bacon recounts playing Torrey and how difficult the greens are to read. Porter says the Ludvig thing has gone too far – claims it has been at the expense of talking about Hojgaard!

Do we like Saturday finishes? Does this actually affect viewership? Brief kudos to Max Homa, friend to all.

(30:00) Yes, a debate about the best young European player breaks out. KVV reminisces on the mystique of the unseen European Tour of past.

And which PGA Tour player would you want/not want to handle nuclear missile operations? Adam Scott, Tyrell Hatton and Rory are mentioned.


(43:00) Why didn’t Finau, Schauffele go to LIV? Tossing some theories around. Feeling Jon Rahm’s absence even more deeply this week at Torrey Pines.


(54:00) Sponsors exemption controversy? Given that they all went to members of the…PGA Tour advisory board? Spicy! Webb Simpson, Adam Scott, Peter Malnati and Maverick McNealy…we’ll be watching you at Pebble.


Other golf headlines: The Match, Nick Dunlap, Anthony Kim + More

(59:30) The newest edition of The Match features Rory, Max, Lexi Thompson and Rose Zhang! Discussing the franchise and predicting how this one could go.


(1:08:00) I jump in for a quick Nick Dunlap/amateur golf pivot, after Nick Dunlap turned professional this week. What’s he capable of?

(1:13:00) Is a deal gonna happen!??!??! Are we almost done talking about this every single week? How do we proceed from a merger? Burn it all down?


(1:25:00) Some guy named Anthony Kim is coming back to golf. KVV poses the question: At 38 years old, what could his career look like? And what was Anthony Kim culture like? How romanticized is Anthony Kim’s career?


(1:38:50) Is Nelly Korda gonna get it done at the Drive On Championship? What’s keeping Nelly from being super dominant?

(1:43:20) Checking on the DP World Tour for the Ras Al Khaimah Championship.

(1:44:00) What makes a good buddies trip? Everyone offers their own unique spin – people, balancing the right amount of golf, location.

(1:58:00) This concludes KVV’s stint as designated survivor! Thanks for listening – the main crew will be back from Tourist Sauce this week! Make sure to tune into our Live from Pebble this upcoming week.

(54:00) Indeed, it is a little scandalous to award sponsor’s exemptions to members of the advisory board. With the vulnerable spot the PGA Tour is currently in, maybe think of handing them out to the most effective/compelling invitees, instead of minions–I mean, mules.

I can’t get down with Porter dismissing the Ludvig hype. I think Hojgaard is underrated too, but Ludvig is aptly rated – and deserves all the noise!

(1:23:50) KVV offers a mea culpa on his perspective of private equity.

(On Pavon’s tattoo) (20:30) “It did strike me as those American kids who get Chinese symbols on their shoulder or neck that are total mistranslations and no one has the heart to tell them that they’re wrong. There’s no way that he heard the SALIVA that flows will be the tears that flow tomorrow.” -KVV


(51:20) “I feel like I’ve been cheated out of Immelman and Nantz not talking about Devlin’s Billabong every time they come here.” -KVV

 This episode is brought to you by Titleist, the choice ball for the newest PGA Tour winner, Matthieu Pavon. That makes four consecutive wins by Titleist ProV1 and ProV1x to start the PGA Tour season. Head over to the 

786 - Farmers Recap

In this, the first in a series of what we’re calling “NLU Special Projects,” Kevin Van Valkenburg dives deep into the curious life story of Gary Player, the son of a South African miner who would go on to win more than 160 global tournaments over the course of his storied career.

785 - The Tall Tales of Gary Player

 Designated survivor KVV is back and this time joined by Golf Digest’s Joel Beall.


I DON’T GIVE A PISS BOUT NOTHIN' BUT THE TIDE: Nick Dunlap wins the American Express, becomes the first amateur to win a PGA Tour event in 33 years

(2:30) Someone call Roll Tide Willie – for the first time in 33 years, an amateur has won a PGA Tour event!


Alabama sophomore Nick Dunlap entered the final round of the American Express with a three-shot lead after a 12-under 60 had him surpassing the likes of Justin Thomas, Sam Burns, and Christian Bezuidenhout. Dunlap would eventually lose his lead but regain it after Sam Burn’s costly tee shot at the par 3 17th gave him a double and Dunlap a two-shot cushion.

KVV brings up a great question: Does it make sense for us to project enormous amounts of expectation on Nick Dunlap yet, even if he decides to turn professional?


This is the kind of feel-good stuff we seldom see from golf these days — and it’s worth taking a moment to bask in its greatness. Another rare part of golf? A visible sequence of amateur excellence in a short amount of time in Dunlap at the U.S. Amateur > Walker Cup > American Express.

And Phil and Tiger aren’t the only pro comparisons Dunlap gets…a certain Keegan Bradley in aesthetic sneaks in there. KVV and Joel also dig into the week that Burns, Thomas and Bezuidenhout had. Of course, Scottie Scheffler’s putting is a topic of conversation – but Joel alleviates any and all further concerns.


(39:40) If you win four times at the Desert Dubai Classic, does that equal one major? Don’t get your hopes up, Rory fans – I’m not sure this is how that works. Rory emerged in the early misfortune of Cameron Young and led by three shots at the turn. Even though he had a little deja vu moment on the 18th – leading by one – Rory managed to fend off Adrian Meronk and earn his 35th career win.


Joel raises the point that we’re numb to the usual excellence that is Rory McIlroy in recent years – especially since he’s not been able to update his major championship record.


KVV and Joel also get into Ryder Cup culture, Joaquin Niemann’s ranking comments and Haotong Li.

Lydia Ko wins at the Tournament of Champions

(1:04:00) Hand up – I thought it was over for Lydia, but we all know what happens when she gets an early season dub…it’s not quite over! She’s broken the winless streak and is just a point away from earning the last point (25) needed to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. She became just the seventh woman to reach 20 LPGA wins before the age of 27.

Joel says Lydia’s career hasn’t fully received its proper due – and KVV shares a few personal anecdotes about Lydia through his reporting career.

Alexa Pano’s runner-up finish has the guys covering her ascendance.

Other headline stories: Jay Monahan visits Saudi Arabia, Bernhard Langer, Sports Illustrated

(1:17:00) Everyone’s favorite new HBO drama, “The Framework Agreement,” continues. Discussing the development of the accusations against Yasir 

 Can anyone make the case anymore that the PIF is going to use golf as a force for good? Yeah, that seems to be going well.

(1:25:00) Talking Bernhard Langer’s last Masters. Fun fact: Langer was the last major winner to win with a persimmon driver!

(1:29:30) The passing of half of famer Jack Burke Jr., who won the Masters and PGA Championship in 1956.

(1:32:30) Angel Cabrera’s pursuit of returning to the United States, Tiger filing a trademark for a new logo.

(1:34:30) The mass layoffs at Sports Illustrated, and how it reflects a deeply troubled industry.

(1:44:00) What golfers would KVV or Joel open a bar with? Both reveal their top five picks to close the podcast segment.


(1:55:25) To close out the show, KVV reads his latest column,

 “Lost in the Sauce of Golf Training Aids,”

 a hilarious yet vulnerable peek at his reluctance to seek human assistance for his golf swing.

Slowing our roll on the Dunlap expectations! Yes, Dunlap just did something generational and deserves all of the hype. But we’re also allowed to bask in how incredible that is, instead of thinking about the next thing.


I think there’s some truth to the nonchalance that is Rory McIlroy winning an event that’s not a major – and some of that might have to do with what the week in golf looked like. However, why do we want Rory to win a major so badly? Because we know how good he is.

(12:30) “What Alabama boosters who are throwing all kinds of money right now are panicking about the current state of their athletic program with football – why wouldn’t they throw a bunch of money my way and I could try to win an NCAA Championship.” -KVV, on Nick Dunlap

(17:40) “Imagine if they replaced the sponsor’s interview with a parent cam? It never fails. There are moments of levity, but it really underscores the human being and says this is not just a performer. There can be really big stakes. I think my mom loves me to death, but I don’t think she loves me as much as Nick Dunlap’s mom.” -Joel

(1:49:00) “He just looks like a guy that should be in a pub at all times.” -Joel, on Shane Lowry

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784 - AmEx Recap with KVV and Joel Beall  

As the LPGA season kicks off Thursday at Lake Nona, we fire up the first of many LPGA-focused podcasts in the new year.

Ahead of the Tournament of Champions, our crew of Randy, Tron, Cody and Jordan go 24 for (20)24 with two dozen questions to be answered over the course of the upcoming season, including:

Our favorite venues and events on the 2024 schedule including a breakdown of the courses that will host the Women's PGA, US Women's Open and Open Championships

The season outlook for Lilia Vu, Nelly Korda, Linn Grant, Lexi Thompson, and several other big names on the LPGA

Our predictions for movement in and out of the Rolex Top 10, potential first-time winners in 2024, Player and Rookie of the Year awards.

Off-course rumblings around the rumored LPGA-LET merger.

783 - LPGA 2024 Season Preview

The Champion Golfer of the Year Brian Harman joins the pod to talk through his win at Royal Liverpool, how his life and playing schedule look after winning a major championship, his experience in Rome as a Ryder Cup rookie and a ton more.

782 - Brian Harman

Look at KVV – he’s the captain now! Or at least for the next few weeks. Call him our editorial director, designated survivor, whatever you want – but he’s leading the charge. For this week, he’s joined by Shane Bacon to unpack all the golf world buzz possible, and it starts right with the Sony Open and the Dubai Invitational.

(3:00) At the Sony Open, the leaderboard became a pileup – ultimately, a three-way playoff between Grayson Murray, Byeong Hun An and Keegan Bradley resulted in Murray winning with a birdie on the first extra hole. KVV and Bacon dig into the polarizing figure that is Murray, and the origins of his turnaround. Does his evolution signal something bigger in the context of identifying who’s who and story-building on the PGA Tour? Bacon encourages everyone to take inventory of the self-reflection Murray used.

(19:30) Noted Keegan Bradley stan KVV comes forward in mourning of some bad golf down the stretch, and gains an ally in Shane Bacon. They also sing praises for Byeong Hun An, who might be the only 1-iron player on Tour – but fell victim to a missed putt. Hun An has dealt with his own adversity – coming off of a suspension from the Tour after testing positive for “PEDs” – aka, a little cough syrup.

A questionable TIO ruling, where Carl Yuan clearly hit his ball OB, but was ruled to be in the grandstands? A lapse of judgment, but why anyone didn’t object to this questionable ruling remains a mystery. 

Perhaps there should be a rules official in the booth.

 The fourth round of the 2024 Sony Open was the day the term “virtually certain” was born – or not, according to the Rules of Golf, pointed out by Kyle Porter. That said, Bacon notes Yuan is one of the more entertaining players to watch on tour – in play and demeanor.


(45:00) Reacting to Gary Woodland’s vulnerable interview, where he revealed how grateful he was to be playing after the removal of his brain tumor.

(48:30) Tommy-lad sneaks past Rory with a birdie on the final hole to claim his 7th DP World Tour victory at the Dubai Invitational! No, TC didn’t fly across the ocean for this one, but he might as well have made a celebratory pit stop. Fleetwood entered the final round with a one-shot lead with Rory as his biggest threat. Instead, two clutch birdies down the stretch and Rory unraveling paved the way for the Englishman.

Bacon points out that in the history of Fleetwoods wins, this is among one of the most legitimate – considering Tommy hasn’t had to beat a ton of Rory McIlroys! The duo then engages the amount of crossover between the Cowboys and Rory, and their respective fanbases.

(1:03:00) The duo talka through Martin Slumbers’ tenure – credit to Geoff Shackelford’s list on the Quadrilateral – and react to his departure.

But that’s not the first hot topic departure — Keith Pelley is out as the DP World Tour commissioner, en route to becoming the president/CEO of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment. Was he bouncing because of all of the potential merger drama? If so, who could blame him?

(1:12:20) Keith Weyand became Golf’s Most Hated for the week after taking a sponsor’s exemption at the Dubai Invitational and finishing…72 shots back.

(1:19:00) Tiger and Nike break up after 27 years. The duo reminisce on the iconic marketing moments.

(1:25:50) The two close the show answering one question: What does “GOAT” mean to you? Are we as appreciative as we could be over what we’ve experienced in the modern era of GOATs – Belichick, LeBron, Tiger, Saban, Serena – to name a few.

The main squad might be away for Tourist Sauce, but we’ve still got plenty of content coming your way — stay tuned for a fun narrative storytelling podcast coming up from KVV (hint: one of his favorite impressions to do), a Brian Harman interview and more!


Is reserved for the very end. I often think about the end of the GOAT era and how much it represents a lot of my own childhood, something I also took for granted! Seeing these GOATs off as an adult, I have a deeper appreciation for the memories they contributed to and what they represent in our culture.


Exists in the same spot as best take. KVV dashing all the hopes and dreams of delulu golf fans hoping every rising amateur star is the next Tiger. Including me.


(32:30) “They’re ‘virtually certain’ that the ball has gone into the grandstand and disappeared.” -KVV


(59:30) KVV: “I had several Cowboys fans in my DMs saying, ‘Man, you don’t get it, this year is different, you’re completely wrong!’ and literally after the game they were like, ‘I’m sorry, I take it all back. This is rock bottom. We are f***ed.”

Shane Bacon: “I almost think the comp is Cowboys fans and Rory fans.”

Geoff Shackelford’s piece on Martin Slumbers

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781 - Sony & Dubai Recap with KVV and Shane Bacon

Golf course architect Beau Welling joins the pod to talk through his design career which began under Tom Fazio and how his business made it through the financial crisis of the late 2000s. Plus, we detail his views on the current golf boom and how much of a role the pandemic played in the rise in golf participation. We also cover his work at the new Omni Frisco PGA Resort, working with Tiger Woods on some of his design projects, designing short courses, his thoughts as an architect on the distance debate and a ton more.

No Laying Up

No Laying Up Podcast

792 - Billy Horschel

791 - WM Phoenix Open Recap

790 - 1997 Majors Deep Dive

789 - AT&T Pebble Beach & LIV Mayakoba Recap Live Show

788 - LIVE from the Range at the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am

787 - LIVE from the Range at the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am

786 - Farmers Recap

785 - The Tall Tales of Gary Player

784 - AmEx Recap with KVV and Joel Beall

783 - LPGA 2024 Season Preview

782 - Brian Harman

781 - Sony & Dubai Recap with KVV and Shane Bacon

780 - Beau Welling

779 - Sentry Recap

778 - Sentry Happy Hour Preview

777 - 10 Year Oral History

776 - 2023 Holiday Medley

775 - PNC Recap